Take any non-Fearless Chaos Marine unit, throw a decent IC or monstrous creature character at it solo, challenge, punk champion, make CSM unit have to take a check at Ld7 or 8 or risk getting swept.
Not a big problem for things like IG, where you're losing 70-80pts a squad. There I hope for my squad to break, so I can shoot the offender in my subsequent turn, and the sacrifice is minimal. But for marines where you're talking 2-300pts per squad, that can add up fast.
What do you think? In order to survive in a world of challenges, are CSM going to be essentially required to either go Fearless/Cult or include a beatstick IC in any unit that's going into the danger zone? Or is the risk low enough that cagey playing and a little luck can avoid it, allowing non-Fearless units to perform well in the front lines?
Wait...standard CSM are only Ld 7? +1 Ld with a champion?
ReplyDeleteNo, they're Ld 8 (9 with a Champ) but if he dies they drop at least a point, more if they've lost combat, and they don't have ATSKNF so if they run away they're in serious trouble.
DeleteAh thanks mate. I think I need to read up on challenges hasn't really come up yet in our games.
DeleteStormy has it. Ld 8/9, or 9/10 w/Veterans of the Long War. But if lose Champ, lose his Ld, so down to 8 or 9, then since you lost the combat (champ only one fighting) you have to check at -1, so at 7 or 8, decent chance of failing and being swept.
DeleteFor other marines, they all have ATSKNF so being swept is irrelevant.
Interestingly now an icon also gives you a +1 combat resolution, so if you have an icon and it's still alive, you'll tie in situations your champ dies in a solo challenge. Hmm.
Maybe I am just getting old but actually seeing it written out instead of just mentally 'doing it' makes me realise how many clunky redundancies are built into GW mechanics.
DeletePersonally i'm going to try just going for veterans of the long war for the leadership boost and see how that goes. Got a feeling that fearless is the way to go though. You don't want to lose an entire 20 man squad to sweeping
ReplyDeleteHeh, listening to 11th company new ep talking about the same thing.
ReplyDeleteWhat time are people doing the Wednesday war hammer over @ gaming underground?
ReplyDelete5-6ish - when I showed last time around 5 two folks were already playing, but most of the people started trickling in later.
DeleteI'm going to try to make it out tomorrow by 5 if I can.